it is about time a possible a real plan is in the works,,after all the panic an lack of attack we could get a respite.,,,TIME TO GO TO COURT TO TAKE EASEMENTS AS NECESSARY..IF IT WAS ME OR OTHERS EMINENT DOMAIN WOULD PREVALE!

A legal question, if a few homeowners don't allow dune building to take place on their beach why can't they be sued by any home owners who get subsequent damage?

Put a Hot Dog Truck in front of the homes that the owners refuse to sign. Oh, and please list their names and addresses so the next time Mantaloking breaches and sends 5' of storm surge to the main land we know who to stew, urrrr, sue.

@ Nick Verdina - my thoughts exactly!

Amen to all!!!

Can we put solar panels on this "calzone" and save the tax payers money? This is the problem when you have a room full of idiots making a total of $600,000 a year.

No one likes to be strong armed for anything, especially people who are accustomed to being in control of everything. I suggest persuasion rather than bullying.

Dunes are more cost-effective than making tens of thousands of property owners pay to super-elevate their homes and/or pay exorbitant annual insurance costs (based on erroneous FEMA maps and calculations).

Why should NJ bail out FEMA's bureaucracy from its Katrina debt?

Dunes with geotubes (planned by Mantoloking) are 25% the cost of rock-reinforced dunes. Everyone's elevation heights and yearly premiums would be lower.

We need common-sense solutions, not FEMA's over-reaching mandates. Get the facts at Facebook.com/StopFemaNow or StopFemaNow.com

Great idea! A few selfish oceanfront owners can't leave the rest of the island and mainland bayfront homes vulnerable to flooding just because they think their precious views are more important than our lives and and our homes. Geotubes + adequate dunes = lower elevation heights & lower annual insurance premiums = avoiding mass abandonments & foreclosures.

Doesn't work..they tried this money wasting stunt on the back side of Barnegat Inlet, lasted a couple of years and gone....mother nature will do as she pleases and we will keep wasting money to keep what we can't at bay

Let eminent domain take the land from the few who want their sunrise view over the ocean. A few ocean front houses can not be the cause for 30,000 houses (on the West side of the bay) to get flooded. Let's get serious about this situation; go to www. stop fema now.com and get educated.

__Nelson said five oceanfront homeowners have yet to sign the required easements, and "two or three" have definitely refused to sign them.__

Name them as this has to be on some sort of public record.
Let everyone know who their neighbors are that won't sign off on the easement and put everyone else at risk.

This might not work. They put in one at Barnegat Inlet to 'save' the lower part of Island Beach from the ocean breaching it. Spent millions and after less than 6 years the GeoTube has been undermined by the ocean currents and is now 12 feet underwater. Look at the aerial pictures I uploaded here. Remember that the GeoTube will be resting on SAND! All the ocean has to do is undermine the sand and the GeoTube will sink. We all know that the ocean can move sand around very easily. Even the rock jetties sink after a while but not as fast as a GeoTube.

Nothing is foolproof against against what the ocean can do, but geotubes are an effective measure to help control erosion of the waterfront. I've seen them in use from GA to DE along the oceanfront and in the Chesapeake. They work.

Mantoloking has had a very proactive approach to the quality of the dunes of any of the oceanfront towns. A geologist specializing in dune structure was hired annually by the town and would do a house by house assessment. The home owner would then receive a report of the assessment and recommendations on what the homeowner should do to replenish the dunes. Whether to do a push ,or install snow fence, or plant dune grass. While not mandatory, most home owners would at least install snow fence and dune grass. This is more than some of the other hard hit beach towns have done.I don't think anyone could have predicted the amount of damage caused by the storm. The fact that the major breach happened in Mantoloking makes it easy for some to point the finger. Remember 58 homes are completely gone. Houses that had been passed from generation to generation,and like home owners in other towns many won't be able to rebuild. This class warfare so many of you espouse is pointless. Mantoloking beachfront owners have riparian rights,their property extends down the beach to the Mean High Water Line. If the government is allowed to come in and build the dunes the the beachfront homeowners would probably lose those rights. This would open up another can of worms in regard to public beach access,parking sanitation. These people pay a lot money for theses homes, as well as the high property taxes for the privilege of beachfront living in a private community. I don't blame them one bit.

Go to the Barnegat inlet to see all the fine work the Army Corp of Engineers does and how well a geotube works. First the Army Corp. of Engineers extended the south jetty. The current changed and undermined the south end of IBSP. The dunes used to be 20 feet tall, . Then the A.C.of E. installed the geotube and dredged the inlet to backfill around it to protect the Sedge Islands marine estuary area . It failed,it was redone that failed and remains that way, and now there is shoaling on the backside by the Sedge Islands . As a result of the work that was done, the lighthouse began to be undermined by the current change. The base was filled in with rip rap as an abatement. So far so good with that at least. A geo- tube is a band-aid not a permanent solution and is prone to tearing and degradation from exposure over time. It's a waste of money.Go to the top of the lighthouse and you will get avery good view. My point is that people should not believe that the government will effectively solve all of the beach erosion problems.

wookfish

Well said, BUT....What about the others who wash away because of them. We are talking about filthy rich elitists....Thge largest diamond dealer in the world, CEO of comcast, a movie actor....Real rich who are used to getting their way and can out spend the county easity.

Ballantine, thank you for your intelligent objective information and comment. Much better than the lynch-mob mentality here so far. While one must understand the emotional outcry of those who have lost so much it is nice to hear reason. I believe Istcav's torch carry is to the wrong location. And post the names of those who dont sign?....what are all of you going to do? - vigilante (ism)? So the owners of these properties own to the mean high tide mark. Is that an exact measured delineation ? Could these geotubes be placed below this mark at the high tide mark and then filled? When extreme lunar tides accompanied with heavy westerly winds a low tide will show a very deep (exposed area of sand) extended reveal. Can this then be used and then sand filled in front of the geotube? The photos showed the geotube exsposed and waves breaking in front and on the tube. One other question. If the tubes are exposed on the beach ( understanding they are intended to be covered ) how much will this diminish the value of the beach as an asset for use and the revenues it creates to the town? Of course this may not be the case of public use in towns like Bayhead and Mantoloking and also a moot point until and when and if rebuilding may be completed

Wackfish, go back, re-read my first post, they did make efforts to build up the dunes . When it comes to the unpredictablity of nature, things happen that can't be avoided. Peoples houses did wash away and they got screwed this time! Not only in Manto but in Normandy ,Ocean Beach,Ortley, Etc. Beachfront property or even bay front or lagoon front property is way beyond my means. So by your logic those property owners should be blamed as well for not preparing for flooding inland of those houses.

I have spoken, if one of those filthy rich elitsts gifted you a house would you accept it ? You probably would... wouldn't you. your vie is a bit short sighted

I don't understand all the hand wringing,phony outrage and the lack of objectivity by the Left Leaning individuals who post here, and the philosophy that government will protect us. Only a strong will for self preservation can do that.

I have spoken it was a rhetoical question design for intrspection, Well ? would you?

Why does brick need these people to sign? Why don't they just build the dune?

Mr.?
Mean high water fluctuates with lunar cycles, storms, wind and wave action etc. If I understand you correctly, placing the tube below MHW,it would be between the high tide and low tide line and be exposed to a lot of wave action. It's possible what your saying would work but i'm no geologist. Maybe a series of smaller diameter tubes running parallel to the shoreline back filled. Littoral drift plays a big part in beach erosion as well But whatever is done it will need to be diligently maintained.I don't feel every 4 years is going to do it, like the Army Corp. suggests. Late winter Nor'easters can undo a lot of beach replenishment that happens naturally over the course of a year. Minor storms and normal wave action can push a lot of sand back towards the beach.over time. You could ask some one in Monmouth County how they feel about beach replenishment, the sand that gets dredged and pumped onto the contains a lot of shell,gravel and detritus,it is not that pure wind blown beach sand that New Jersey is known for. But over time it gets covered by clean wind blown sand.

Wackfish,
Nice try Libtard, Are you still on my first post? bang and blame is all you know. If you don't agree with somene's point of view,it is a knee jerk reaction for you to ridicule without providing a intelligent response. What's funny is Libs view themselves as intellectually superior. Calm rational thought eludes you.

All you guys should just look at the picture I posted. Picture says it all. No wave action there, just tides and it didn't work at all. There must be another solution

"Go to the Barnegat inlet to see all the fine work the Army Corp of Engineers does and how well a geotube works. First the Army Corp. of Engineers extended the south jetty. The current changed and undermined the south end of IBSP." ....Where exactly was this geotube placed? And are there any recent depth surveys yet released for Barnegat bay just inside and out the inlet? As of now, I understand you can walk more than half way out to the tip of the Barnegat north jetty at the south end of Island Beach. With the prevalent north to south current seems the Point Plesant and south beach sand were deposited there. Geotubes may be an answer, but a good example of sand retention is the deep and constant beaches of Lavallete with those rock jetties. What if those geotubes were put underwater off the beach. Waves are created and break when they first meet the shallows and the drag of the moving molecules on the bottom. Also what if these tubes were placed underwater perpendicular to the beach to act as structures like jetties but underwater. Wave actions and currents and the understanding of hydraulics might suggest this would work. Just some thoughts as this is what this article is supposed to be about...right?

MR. ?
Riparian Rights is a very complex issue here's a link I think you'll find the answer here. http://www.state.nj.us/transportation/eng/documents/BDC/pdf/MeanHighWaterManual2008.pdf
I'm going to skim through it after I post
I was under the impression that MHW was not a fixed elevation.

I live within the multi millionaire communities of ob1' ob2' ob3, seacrest, and the rest. Feel free to swing by my 500 sf mansion were we sip crystal and eat Cavier on a daily basis. My community has not signed the easement and neither have any of these other communities. We are thousands of homes, not a few that need pretty views. What I need is a place to sit, not a dune than the ocean. This was the first time my home has ever had a drop of water in it, I am taking my chances and so is my community. The breaches, ortley and mantaloking occurred in places where natural inlets once stood, if they happen again, blame Mother Nature, not me. If you think fema will rethink the zones if dunes are built, I got a bridge for sale.

Mr.?
The geo tube in IBSP is on the North side of the inlet,west of the beach. Barring going to the Lighthouse you can see it using Google Earth. Like I said 'm I no geologist . Let me use this as an example, when you stand in wash with the waves swirling around your feet what happens ? The water moves the sand from under and around your feet and redeposits it, in no time at all you are sinking and calf- deep in sand. I spend a good amount of time in the Park and know it pretty well. From the North jetty you can see that the channel favors the North side of the inlet and there is shoaling on the South side ,suitable for smaller boats on calmer days. What do you mean by deep and constant beaches.?

Ortley Fulltimer, you got me, I usually try to be a little more coherent. I should've re-read that one

From the link you provided showing a delineation between private property and state owned.
"The line formed by the intersection of the tidal plane of mean high tide with the shore.
The mean, sometimes called ordinary, high tide is defined as the median between the
spring and the neap tides. The average to be used should be, if possible, the average of
all the high tides over a period of 18.6 years. In New Jersey the State owns all lands, now
or formerly, below the mean high water line, which have not been alienated.

So if it is averaged over 18.6 years it will change up or down from year to year depending on conditiions . The deeper water off the beach would definitely allow the waves to break closer to the beach.

Mr Ships 27
Thanks for posting those figures.Pretty interesting to see how little it does cost. In regard to whom your post was directed to, nothing silences them except facts and logic. It's their Kryptonite

As we all unfortunately witnessed. Thank you Mr.?for the rational, insightful discussion. It shows you care about the shore

And Mr Ships 27, very interesting math! "Just so you know, the resistance to easements is about property rights and not protection." Exactly!.... those property rights as granted by the Constitution. Also, I dont agree any beach should be private, but that is what has been allowed in NJ. What if that shoe was on the other / their foot? One can understand the plight and frustration of those who lost their homes, but if they think this will be remedied by the forcing of easements and eminent domain, they will be waiting for some time. Even through proposed legislation at the state level is being considered as we speak, this could be in the courts for years. Alternative solutions may be the answer. Although not directly affected with personal property loss, everyone is negatively impacted - again not to the extend of those devastated homeowners! We are all indirectly impacted with looming tax increases with the lose of our tax ratables and base revenues collected from tourism. I am always looking for answers through discussion, which should be the means to a solution and very much concerned about the future prosperity of our shore.

I am confident that an easement that allows for dune building to protect ocean breaches and inland flooding would be acceptable to all. The problems result when our politicians try to tack on all kinds of extra use and entitlements. If you are going to take land or land value (for whatever reason) through easement or condemning - the property owner must be compensated. Our politicians are not all ethical and there are many looking for opportunities that they can produce for friends.

Tough noogies on those that do not sign easements. TAKE THEIR PROPERTY by eminient domain rules. The few greedy ones that want to "see the ocean" cannot prevail over the many that don't want "the ocean to see them". Smack them down and rip their property away. And I don't even live there!!

Not for nothing but all this talk about dunes and geotubes in Mantoloking is sickening. All of our tax dollars going to the protection of maybe 100 homes along the waterfront? Gimme a break. If any state money is pumped into that town in the form of dunes then they need to readjust the parking & allow more beach access. There is virtually no access to the beach in Mantoloking and now they want tax dollars to protect these homes. I never see anyone in those homes anyway.

That has to change.