The citizens of Brick need a tax break, NOT a real estate developer. The route 70 site is a prime location. Any future developer interested should assume normal typical assessment for this location. Our elected politican need, no must act in out best interest, and not in the interest of someone elses pocket!

At the end of the day this will end up being what the town council wants...and not what us, the townspeople will want. Money trumps happiness when it comes to them.

This whole thing is a scam. The building being knocked down before an election. The trailer with the campaign sign 2 years later. Now this new proposal. Scam, Scam Scam.

Please help me here. I don't remember when the developer was given the "bid" to take care of this property. But it would seem obvious if they can't live up to their original plan for whatever reason, they should be made to forfeit their "right" and the selection process should be reopened to all contractors to submit. This to me, seems like someone bidding to build a house based on certain specs, signing a contract, and then saying it is too expensive and wanting to build something smaller at the same price. Am I wrong here?

A Big Giant Water Park year round. Money maker!

No condos ! We don't need anothr Saw Mill or Maple Leaf development in the center of our Town. Condo development will only lead to More Gang + Drug Activity,Transient Dwellers as a future Hub for those expanding into Brick From Lakewood.

As I've posted before -This would be a great investment for a Marriott product to review, to develop this land.
If anyone has visited Marriott's BeachPlace Towers located at 21 S Fort Lauderdale Beach Blvd, Fort Lauderdale. (Google it) you would not only find a well put together hotel,time share,senior development, fine dining, accommodations, underground parking.
Where as, on the same site [smaller to the Food town lot]- also includes an inside 3 level mall complete with 2-3 themed restaurants,pubs,coffee shops,casual bistro, along with various retail space. There is plenty of space to make this work.
What would make this location attraction valued, being next to Forge Pond - river for boating,park+recreation ( with the right investment+marketing-this could be an added income: aka- "Tourism Tax-Town Funding" for hotel guest).
From the frontage of the land, as from a Hotel point of view facing east -overlooking the Inlet, Marina, Boating access ( Marketing+ Investing+Attraction for local income). Additional thoughts for a hotel establishment -key words ring in "Location", 3 access points to the Garden State Parkway,Baseball Stadium,Beaches,Boards walks (when completed)-shopping, dining, local airport . Access to downtown Philadelphia,New York City,AC less than 1.5hr away. If you wanted to host an event to hold 200 guest "affordable"- all under one location, that was modern, clean, up to date, where would you go.? This is a gold mine for the "Right Investor".

My concern condo at 300,000.00 and Rent of 1625.00..on a busy highway rt.70...the traffic on that road is crazy now sometimes 10 to 15 min. From that light to chamberbridge light..Out of control.

I could understand a PILOT initially to get it off the ground, but a PILOT doesn't put any monies into the School cofers and, I don't believe, this is a senior development they are talking about, so who is going to cover the added cost of the children's schooling that would move into this condos?

I attended the Council meeting and Dan's article is accurate. However, I would add that a lot more was said at the meeting. Several, educated and qualified people spoke and dove into the details.

I am surprised the town has not set up a web link or a common file cabinet where ALL documents could be readily available. I asked for transparency and cooperation at the meeting. Moreover, I suggested that we strart over and thoroughly evaluate this process and called for a symposium so we all could get educated and participate in the "democratic process". I believe council generally agreed, but we must hold them accountable. I truely hope they will do what they say.

We are not waiting for Council to be transparent. We're forming a community group and please stand by while we get more organized.

"FriendsofForgePondNJ" is reserved and will go live soon. Our mission will be to insure that the democratic process takes place, transparency is of highest importance and that the public will have access to ALL documents associated with this project.

Stay tuned fellow citizens.

No condo's, no abatement...do these people listen to the people who will vote them out?

Can I do this for my blighted flood property in Brick?

I hope it back fires and it ends up being the worst place to live in Brick. Maybe it can be worse then maple leaf and the other crap holes.

We really can't afford this. The realization is the town is going to be losing money on the waterfront/ bay area homes. People will default morgages and walk away with the new flood maps. Who's going to makong up the difference?

Needs to be an Assisted Living or Sr Development. That way it doesn't bring more children to school systems and doesn't increase school costs.

How about leaving this property to future generations to do as they wish? Why does every parcel need development? Also this agreement was made a while ago. Now the builder has the advantage to wait until the market heats up again with little or no consequence. Should the property be re-evaluated at the time of construction so the town gets the right share?

I agree with Opinionated, if the original plan put forth was bid on and M&M won that bid, fine. But now there is a whole new plan to do something completely different, it should be reopened to bid again. Unless M&M is in someone's pocket, hmmm. Now at this point in time, it may not be as easy to get bidders seein how contractors, developers etc are concentrating on Sandy projects. We are between a rock and a hard place !!!

To Daniel Nee, thanks for your response but I still feel if the developer wants to renege (and that is what it is) on their original plan then it should be put back up for proposals/bids. I understand it may not be financially feasible but in all fairness the process should be restarted. Another issue I feel is that their should be a specific time frame to implement such actions not an open-ended deal. Look what happened to Asbury Park. Such a deal was devastating to the city especially when the courts got involved. I believe the term is do your business or get off the pot. But it should be reopened to ALL developers or else it would be unfair if not unethical.

"under the newly proposed plan by M&M – include a $592,972 annual tax payment " - - "Gee that looks - exciting.." ..... "Really"

However NO money would go toward the schools; especially when you have 192 condos with the potential of 100 - 200 children possibly living with in those units over the next 5 years.? There would also be a safety issue - children playing on route 70 into on coming traffic, parking lots. Bussing traffic will block up intersections during peak times; did anyone do a flow count for traffic; I'm sure someone would agree that it would be a Huge Safety issue.

As to a "gated community", How would a $9.00 hour each; part time security guard [unarmed] provide much protection, safety or - the security it's self to the residents and to others ? Other than writing reports and calling 911? What happens when the property management changes, who then decides that it was not cost effective to keep a security contract open as well to let things go because of budgeting?
maybe then the Town will have to "pay" for another Sub -Station in Another condo complex, more added cost to the tax payor.

If you have 192 condo units paying an average $5,500 a year each/individually for property taxes on residential only. The Town would receive and estimated $1,056,000.oo yearly a lot more than M+M could ever offer.

If M&M's target price of about $300,000 for the condominiums , then property Taxes would average $6,000 per unit.

Rental would average $2,600 - $3,200 a month. That would mean the average person who makes $80K a year would afford either the rent or mortgage. However those numbers do exists, if you Live in Pier Village; Long Branch. Brick has been hit by a Super Storm (??); in some areas and parts of town; could be looking at a 30 year set back for redevelopment. What benefit would another condo development; that doesn't pay taxes individually do for the township it's self. How would this project help redevelop the town as well off set the taxes for stabilization.?

How about Mr.Pezzaras put together a financial feasibility study. I met with him and he ran some rough nimbers and suggested that to keep the site "as is" for the time being is about $15 / household, based on a $300,000 assessment. I would think 1/2 of Brick is about $200,000, so that amounts to very little while this matter can be debated, discussed and properly planned. It's simple.

The old fossils cost us less then normal housing. Another 1-200 kids in the schools is much more expensive. Hmmmm maybe taxing students and not the owners of the properties they rent. 4 kids in one home pays the same school taxes and a home with NO kids? Major adjustment needed.

If they put the property back out for bid you can bet your ass its not worth the 7.5 million M&M is paying for it

If we Build a Hotel - Hopefully get a Marriott system in place. If someone wants to take a look at numbers -

Just take a look at adding tourism tax [for the township] for just a moment.

Just by using $12.00 as an example - added to every room. A hotel with 200 rooms charging a daily rate of $12.00 [ tourism tax ] which would produce = $2,400.00 per day X's 365 days = $876,000.oo revenue for the Township it's self?

That's just based on full occupancy of 200 rooms. we haven't even calculated on any of the 100's of other added amenities that can be offered. The savings and profit is not the upfront " in your pocket - grab the cash now.." [ proposed plan by M&M – include a $592,972 annual tax payment ]

It's in the long term growth and community re-development program. With Long term planning; there would be enough money to come back into the town, redevelop areas, stabilize taxes [ for a time] give back to the community it's self. - "What are we going to do for the people of this town" .. M&M plan would be an injustice to everyone.

I have traveled many parts of the US. as well both Eastern and Western Caribbean, stayed at various hotels including Marriott systems. They are always well planed and developed as a landmark.

Landmark defined as: by it's location, amenities, services, guest relations, businesses developments, time shares, senior housing, the list can go on.

The only way that a Marriott system would ever fail at this location is; only if we allow those who develop it make it fail from the start. This could easily be done by over pricing everything, construction, building materials, permits, approvals, unions, stalling construction scheduling , equipment failures - inflating cost when presented; that a Hotel chain would not see the cost efficiency to make a return.

Which would then leave M&M original condo plan back on the table as a desperate sale / offer.

Scott, can you tell us what if any donations M&M made, to any political parties in Brick ?

NO TAX BREAKS!!!!!!!! The citizens need it more than M&M!!

Great Wolf Lodge.... year round fun and awesome tax returns to our town... its a hotel and an indoor water park year round..

Make it the worlds greatest Farmers Market. You are all going to need a place to barter within the next 2 years.

Many interesting and thought provoking comments here. This entire issue needs to be rethought, not by the politicians alone, but by the people of this town. If the council really has the interests of the residents in the forefront, they should put this entire matter on hold, and then create a panel of citizens, professionals and public officials to explore all possibilities of what to do with the site and what the cost implications would be. People may be willing to pay a little more in taxes rather than have the site overdeveloped with the condos as being proposed, or maybe they don't care about any increases in traffic or other negatives just to get the most money out of the site. But it is the people who should have the final say, not the politicians. A committee could be tasked to produce a report within six months that would show the possible alternatives, and then the council could include a referendum at the November election for the people to pick the preferred alternative. There's plenty of time to do it. Considering how long the land has been unused, what's another six months to get it right!

Sal, your idea seems reasonable. The various voices on this site show that there is significant opposition to the new proposal, especially since this development will apparently be gated and have exclusive access to Forge Pond and possibly be granted an easment for the acres facing Rt 70, and also access to the golf course.

Those in favor quote figures that would come in as tax or otherwise and seem like a subatantial amount, but Brick is already wall-to-wall commmercial with many vacancies, all producing huge amounts of revenue, so this questionable project would add a relatively small percentage to the town coffers. And remember, while the rest of the State was satisfied with a 2% property cap increase, Brick got 24% and even though the Dems were at first against it, they haven't refunded anything to us, and the Republicans were for it before they were agaiinst it and they didn't refund anything either. So putting a giant nuisance on this site is no guarantee that the taxpayers will see any benefit.

Sal: It seems like we're re-hashing the same issues that were extensively discussed about a week ago on the Patch. It goees to show how an asset like the Patch can be used to generate healthy dialogue. I like John Zingis' idea of organizing a "FriendsofForgePondNJ" group that can sit and discuss the various ideas and put on paper the actual cost/benefit analysis for each. There are so many numbers being thrown around about tax breaks, county taxes, school taxes etc. that it should all be put on paper to make an accurate comparison. Once this is done we have an actual document that can be presented to Scott and/ or the Council.

No condos! Who would pay 300,00 for a condo on route 70 when you can buy waterfront now for that price? The condos would not sell at 300,00 and would end up going for much less, therefore we have another gross condo complex but this will be right in the middle of Brick for all to admire! Preserve the land or use it for a much needed new High school and sell the property of old Brick high, put a pool and an ice rink in the new school and be done with it!

If it is thought that a hotel constructed at that site would have it's Romney board member marvel at contributing tax payments to the town, think again.

To boot, if it is thought farming the lot would create a new stream of property tax revenue, think again. That scenerio would create 0 tax contribution to the town coffers.

Mineeeemoh [AKA Vera?], what does your first comment mean?
Also, as I stated after the last article...THIS TOWN DOES NOT NEED ANY MORE REVENUE, TIME TO LIVE WITHIN OUR MEANS...everyone would argue that but it is time to start tightening the belt. We should not be slave to creating a ratable on that property. Doing what is best for the community doesn't have to mean development and more tax revenue. Doing what is best for the community may be just leaving the property as a passive park that requires little construction cost & little maintenance once complete. Has anyone thought of exploring with Ocean County whether they could add it to their park system?

Doing due dilligence always helps don't ya think? You got someone talking about a Marriott hotel. I mean comeon, everyone should know Romney rejoined that BOD the second he lost the Presidential election.

clearly there are to many rentals an condos now.we need a bright workable plan directed by some of the brightest people.SEE WHAT IS WORKING IN SIMILAR AREAS AN REACH OUT TO THE RIGHT DEVELOPERS!!!!!!!!!!!

You got a guy running around town telling people a hotel would be the best thing because it would fit into the "throw in a liquor license" scenerio. I mean what is not good for this town is a hootinanny dance club

After doing a bit of research I came across an interesting concept that seems to be a big success in San Diego. While this type of project is not exactly applicable to the Foodtown lot, the overall concept is one that is interesting. Notice that it calls for direct neighborhood involvement. Just something to think about.

http://www.marketcreekplaza.com/

First of all, it sounds like Mr Finamore is trying to see the citizens of Bricktown something, maybe a Marriot Hotel??? Secondly, how long does everyone think it will take before all political palms are sufficiently greased so the "redevelopement plans" will magically change? You know how Brick is run, sit back and watch the magic!

Ultimately, a tax break to a property as large as the Foodtown property has to be applied to the rest of the tax payers. I would like to see the property developed but not at my expense.

I think Mr. Finamore is only offering suggestions for everyone. Just a concept for everyone, not just himself. Victor is being proactive and not by point fingers; yet offering possible solutions. If we are going to make a change, we need to start somewhere and build from that point going forward. It's refreshing to know that there's someone like him out there.

I have hope that the council will do as promised by allowing us to vote on the previous proposal. This property has been such a loss but we should accept that and do what's right for the tax payers, either way we will pay for it, wouldnt everyone at least like to be able to enjoy the property?

There are many good ideas in this chain of comments coming from a number of individuals that share a common goal of developing a plan for this valuable property in a fairly central area of Brick. Searching around a bit I've seen a number of examples of how community residents have worked together with local and state governments and commercial developers to plan and buildvery impressive mixed use projects that have become a central attractions and revenue generators . An example: http://www.shopmcp.com/index.html

Is anyone interested in having a face to face meeting to discuss things? As good as the Patch is It would be more effective to talk directly to each other.

Anyone interested in the executed version of the Foodtown Redevelopment agreement and the Hotel feasibility study. Paste this link into your browser this is a shared google docs folder.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/1mSaYdMo8SjWcwptglua6Ca9E6IOVZbIkbFzIH88bIu8Kv4np4bbtAEPyJoPt/edit?usp=sharing
https://docs.google.com/file/d/1m4qZ1yvBLXzDL4ZuHy1NTJ37mGbshneIhUFpBZ0vvYyQwQJvx2oB9ORpaAnB/edit?usp=sharing
https://docs.google.com/file/d/1DYgl15TcOVEAOHP1f_EO0bIwHPBzxnpbgEGTxyhR2ZwfHKHoVPSikpg6gHtC/edit?usp=sharing
https://docs.google.com/file/d/1suQ-NVr1r5zI8DHQUmlL2AvuM4Dud-65Pu487J4dmESwEw9rOQIx3pe5AhX9/edit?usp=sharing
https://docs.google.com/file/d/1nMuoTAPeV4wYTcRrkbAxsG3VhOTjrCqHABZ6wh9eaKknjlg4ey9KRfdso_b6/edit?usp=sharing
https://docs.google.com/file/d/1QVDE3XUxdvUeoKLeWq2ycZJLm5istqsPqkyJJjJsMbRrftGUQ_csjGOURdtY/edit?usp=sharing

PS Click on the little file next to the star in the top left to see all files included

Fact is, nothing will be done. After Nov it will sit empty until 2017 and the next election. This is nothing but political bs and spin, just like tearing down the building, the promise of a community center, and shoppes on the pond.

I really hope people can see through the BS

BW you and the general population are plagued with such negativity. This is what is wrong with the system the citizens feel powerless and let the governing body have full control. Idea: How about we attempt to intervene in the corrupt system and see where we net out? Maybe you will be correct in the end but I believe it's worth the time and energy spent to potentially see some change in the way we've been "allowing" the BS(as you call it) to go on!

This is a situation where the people can and should make a difference. But because of the variety of options, we need information and a discussion of the tradeoffs. Some thoughts: As the land sits right now, the town is getting no taxes. That means that no action will not change the tax rate (even though it will rise due to other circumstances). If we look at one extreme, condos, rentals and retail units, we need to know exactly to what extent the tax rate will be reduced. If we look at another extreme where the township develops the property as a community center and park, the cost of that and how it would affect the tax rate needs to be known. Obviously, it will cost us since instead of the site being a revenue generator, it will be just the opposite, unless some of the costs can be offset by use of the publicly owned assets. We, the people, need to convince the elected officials to study both the "extremes" and potential uses in between. (continued below)

Then the alternatives can be presented to the people to decide what is more important… attempting to reduce ( a dubious possibility) the tax rate by accepting an intense use on the site (along with traffic, potential increase in student population and the loss of an aesthetic piece of land); or, create a community center with a banquet hall that could generate revenue for weddings, conferences, etc. and be integrated with a park like section adjacent to the water where people could rent canoes and rowboats for fishing and crabbing. Perhaps even a theater for the performing arts, such as the Spring Lake Theater or Paper Mill Playhouse, could be considered and included on the site. I can picture a very pastoral setting that would be attractive, easy to get to, would not be intrusive, and yet provide some income to the town. But ultimately, the people should at least be given the facts and a chance to decide what's best for the town.

Sal: Ihink that your on to something. There is no reason why this project (if they are really going to do something) can't be a mixed use property with a combination of public access near the water, a community theater/ conference space that generates revenue, and mixed retail but NO box stores. This preserves open space for use of residents and generates income and would also eliminate the need to put more housing in Brick. As was said before, the market is already too soft and there is no realistic way that condos can sell for $350,000+ or rent for $2,000+ in that, or probably any other, location in Brick.

I have also given up on the idea of electing new faces to the Council from the Rep. or Dem. parties with the expectation that things will be different. There have been shifts from Dems. to Reps. enough times with nothing to show. I'll write your name in too unless other residents who share our opinion join together to run an Independant. I like the name Freinds of Forge Pond. I think it was John who suggested the creation of a Facebook page. Who wants in?

It looks as if there is a page, "THE friend of forge pond" from Littleton, Mass. Not sure that should be a factor but just wanted to make everyone aware

Where is Mr Zingis, I feel its up to him. I look forward to his input, and hope we can get something going over the weekend.

I can get us a place to meet.... the beautify brick Facebook page is already set up.... There are more than just a handful of people on patch that feel this way about this issue and many others around town.

Thanks Paul, I joined the Beautify Brick page but not quite sure how we can communicate effectively there either without being able to privately message, just write a post?

7pm tomorrow if anyone is interested go to beautify brick Facebook page for details.

Sure, 7 pm at ocean queen diner a group will meet to discuss thoughts and concerns on redevelopment. Not sure how many people to expect but I assume whoever arrives first should just ask for a large table off to the side, group name friends of forge pond. We will tale it from there.