Sally, this would also bring jobs to the current residents rather than simply more residents. I agree this council is short-sighted. I also think Wahoo is pretty insightful on this one.

Sally do you have a bank that will back a hotel because the developer was told they won't back it because it's a bad risk with the economy the way it is

That would be a nice idea. Something to add value to the quality of life in town. Even a theater for live performance or area for farmer's market would be nice in a town where the last cultural event was the opening of a Krispy Kreme.

Another idea is to add a community garden that would give schools/ senior centers/ civic organizations etc. a resource to work together on. Food grown could either be sold at retail with proceeds going to projects that benefit residents or donated to food banks in the area.

Does it have to be either just commercial or public? I don't get it. This plan seems very unimaginative. This looks like a shoddy, sad Pier Village- really yet another strip mall.. with housing attached. Pier Village is a success, but it takes maximum advantage of its location.

What is wrong with true mixed use?

How bout: A beautiful Forge Pond pathway that everyone can walk or bike on, some restaurants to eat with some outside seating with a view of the lake- some shops that aren’t just lined up in a row, some LIMITED housing (which you could get $300K for because they would have a cool environment around them) a small performance space, some open space and a community center.

This town needs a place where people WANT to go. I travel out of town to do the simple recreation like jogging- because the town is so… depressing. Brick needs some soul an this is a great opportunity to have it! Having Brick remain a cultural wasteland hurts everyone’s home values to say nothing about quality of life.

Come on already!

We already have a park not five minutes away that is currently in a shambles courtesy of Sandy. (Windward Beach). This condo thing is a horrible idea and what is wrong with white Formica counter-tops? Because they are going to use marble we should fall for this scam hook line and sinker? If we don't come out to stop this nightmare of traffic congestion OUR TOWN IS FINISHED. We have no viable hotel or banquet facility.

I also agree w/ Lifelongs suggestions. Anything that would add to the quality of life beyond chicken wings and donuts and could create jobs!

Yeah i mean, a nice park would be a great idea for the location. Right next to a nice lake, make it better to access for fishing and such, make a nice trail to walk or ride your bike, with stuff to cater kids. I dont think we need anymore people living in Brick, lol They keep building malls when we have tons of empty places. Shouldnt building anything new til those are filled. I know we have a few parks in the area, but I think it owuld be a good idea. Like said before, a garden for school kids to make, even seniors, etc. Cant see why they couldnt make a nice big park with a nice long path, and make a nice garden for flowers and veggies. Might keep some people out of trouble.

Good point. They dismiss a hotel and conference center (thankfully), because there is "a lack of market" for such a complex. However, they feel $300,000 units will fly off the shelves - to whom!? These units will become rental units, which in turn will become section 8 housing, or worse - meth labs...... It took forever for them to figure out how to correct the bottle jam at this location with traffic on Rte. 70W and the turns onto Brick Blvd. The red light cameras have brought back some of the congestion and this project will make a nightmare of traffic unlike anything seen before they corrected it... ughhh.

Put a synagogue in there and the units will sell out in minutes. Lakewood is expanding at a rate of about 10,000 people a year. They are expanding into Brick. The county should force Lakewood developersto widen theroads and build more commercial shopping in Lakewood to handle the expanding population. As it is now, all the Lakewood shoppers come into Brick and clog up our highways. In 10 years it will be impossible to travel through town.

That is why we must vote these incumbents out of office. They no longer even ask us voters and taxpayers what we want, so they no longer represent us as they are elected to do...

Best idea yet.

I LOVE THAT IDEA!!!!!!!!!

I believe that both of these stores have already conducted feasibility studies and have determined that the demographics and location were not suitable.

Did the feasibility study show the 3 feet of water that came through that lot, with Superstorm Sandy? As the river overflowed Rte. 70. Does that seem an attractive location for upscale housing? Route 70 cannot handle the current traffic. Which you could probably determine by standing in the Rainbow Diner lot and watching traffic; no need to hire an expensive consultant. Brick government needs a master plan and common sense.

I live ( for the time being ) here in Maple Leaf. It use to be a lovely community. Now, we all know what has happened here. If they put condos there, the same thing will happen. The drugs and gangs will move right in and destroy the community!

Welcome to Lakewood east. Within 5 years we will have another Maple Leaf or Primrose

Not sure what the developer is up to these days (don't live in that part of town and haven't been back there lately), but Nobility Crest was approved by the planning board following the legal battle. There will be approx. 200 units there.

http://brick.patch.com/articles/nobility-crest-housing-commercial-development-approved

Another Nobility Crest would be a disaster in Brick. They are responsible for a number of additional developments including one in Ocean/ Neptune that has unsold units 5 + years after completion and there has been very serious accusations of financial mismanagement against developer.

Shhhh....don't ask any questions.

Hey Denny
What does a teacher do specifically? They teach. A manager manages. There is now specific way in which to do this except to direct your staff to provide service to the people in a legally compliant way.

Scott, could you please tell me why Circe Dodge is allowed to park their cars on the grassy state highway right of way? This is illegal and in violation of the town codes . Thank you.

The Metedeconk River is important to local wildlife and the surrounding human populations, providing a place of recreation as it winds through the towns of Brick, Freehold, Howell, Jackson, Wall, Lakewood and Millstone. It is the primary source of drinking water for Brick, Point Pleasant Beach and Point Pleasant Borough. As such, it was classified as a Category 1 (C1) River, the highest level of protection offered rivers by the state of New Jersey.

John, the CAFRA permit has not yet been issued for this project.

If there are enough SERIOUS folks out there that are interested in organizing then we should talk, but the Brick Patch isn't the place to do so. Something like this is long overdue in many communities throughout the state. As you say, this is still a democracy and its time that the residents' voices are taken into consideration before decisions like this are made.

I realize they are in front of the NJDEP for their CAFRA Permit. This is an opportunity to evaluate their proposed development plan and if there's enough public interest we could request that NJDEP hold a public meeting on the project.

John I would also be willing to come out against this. Can someone please keep us apprised of when such a meeting would occur? These nutjobs already ruined this town with that godawful orange box that landed in our town plaza. This is the final straw. Please keep us informed when a meeting will occur. I would tell everyone in my area about such a meeting and if we all did the same, we could "flashmob" the council .

If the democrat lawyers and engineers like the idea, then Fozman, Moore, and Ducey like the idea also. Call Starkey and see if he likes the idea, then you wil know if Fozmam and the gang also like it.

Fozman is not up for re-election until 2015. But I do subscribe to get a GRIP (Get Rid of Incumbent Politicians) and I believe as President George Washington believed in term limits.

Hey Jerry,
FOZ said he personally liked the idea..................Brick voters elected him becaue they thought he wanted to serve them, but things changed and he no longer wears the pants in his family. I don't remember seeing his spouses' name on the ballot. Give me the perfect word that describes FOZ best and also enter the fact that a new health policy is soon forthcoming...............I onder what will be next from this man who seems to take direction from the listening audience at meetings.

The Dem's only went around town to get our votes and make us think they would be different ..Boy were we all fooled ...Different faces but same story..

For John Zingis,
I would love for the NJDEP to hold a public meeting. Can we pursue that?

Your right SS, I received one of those letters from the township because I parked MY car on MY grass. If parked on the street, we risk losing a side mirror. Because they are a business, they have different rules?

Uh you need to read the article again. They said that they ARE NOT going to be renting for 800$/month just to fill them up. The condos are going to sell for 300k...which means that they will have a hard time filling them up in this town.

Get rid of High school hockey programs. Make hockey families pay for their own ice time. I cant afford it anymore. Same with the other school sports. Make all sports pay to play and lower my taxes.

I think that's what brick Mom 3 was saying to get a sport place that all kids could go to & enjoy ??/

@ Slippery Slope, I understand your point, must of us working class family are taking the burden of everyone.. I get that. BUT I have 4 children that enjoy sports ( I pay taxes just like you) & I have to extremely struggle. I work a full time job & a part time job since my wife was laid off 8 months ago. We are NOT eligible for any type of help because basically I WORK.... We lost a car during the store & FEMA denied are claim because we have another car ( which makes it difficult for my wife to look for work since I need it to get to my job/s) But beside that I DO NOT want my children to NOT be involved in sports if they want, studies show that the more kids are involved the less likely they will get into trouble & More likely to be successful in school & not to mention the HOPE of MAYBE a chance of some type of scholarship for college( only way they would be able to go) We must pay already about 500$ at least in equipment funds raises etc.. ( per child) to be involved in sports... if we had to " Pay to play" We just would not be able too, ( beside that there was a law past in june of 2010(?) that schools could not ask for pay as you play ") Our situation is common, & it that law became over turned many children would not have a chance to be involved in team sports... Children learn a lot from participating in a team sport & not just the sport of itself, but a lot of life lessons I like many parents do not want them to miss out on

@Jimbo....Buy your kids some running shoes and havethem join cross country or basketball. Cheap and inexpensive sports and they keep the kids in great shape. You also dont have to spend a fortune on them.

Also, why must schools provide the students with every sport? football and baseball/softball, basketball and track should be enough. Do we need golf and lacrosse, soccer and field hockey and hockey and tennis and swimming and on and on and on? Better yet, make football, baseball, basketball and track and soccer, all co-ed. Who ever are the best athletes make the team. Women want equality so lets givethem the chance.ne team, co-ed best athletes play.

Slippery - Not sure on the other sports you mentioned, but I know for a fact that football is technically "co-ed" in Brick. It once came up at a board meeting.

If this goes through it is seriously time to consider baling.

Sal, your ideas have merit but will never happen as outlined. Looking at the drawings or perhaps, it was actual photos of the clubhouse could instead be a community center. not the fitness room but a place for groups to meet, even include a banquet area that could be sectioned into smaller rooms for parties. When the Democratic and Republican organizations need to have a large meeting where do the go? Hotel in Toms River. Since prior to my moving here in early 2001 Brick Township has purchased property for a Community Ctr or Recreation center or both. Behind the PO then Foodtown to mollify the teachers in St Thomas who mostly lived in Toms River.
We the people do need to be involved in the Redevelopment plan. We the people have paid enough for the site to justify such involvement. Perhaps, we can hold a meeting. Where can we find a place large enough. Oh, I know out on Route 70 in the hotel across from Costco.

Comments continued. As stated we do not need to have a fitness center Ballys is nearby. Ditto an ice rink. The OC Library just redid the Brick branch forget any thing. Another broken promise an enlarged grander library with meeting rooms. We can go back to the plan to put a bicycle or walking path from Route 70 to the area near the golf course etc. It was approved by the County when they discussed the Dwulet purchase. I rode by the Ice Palace the other day and it did not look as dilapidated as it had then. Nonetherless, it exists and people could pay the proprietor for its use and possibly get fit walking between it and the Community Center as I wuld do in Brooklyn.

Good one Sal.....................I wonder who sold Forge Pond to Morris?

Art: From what I heard last night, the property still is owned by the township. For Scott Pezzaras: is this correct?

Sal

It is under a contract purchase type of agreement. As was stated last night title will transfer when he is able to get a permit to start the project.

Dont you mean gets a permit and writes a check and then transfer title?

BW

No when he gets approvals and development permits and can optain a bldg permit is when he will close title. Similar to a contract purchase.

seriously agree. I remember when it was a good place. It is sad.

my kids do exercise on their own & a lot of the sports are co -ed already &to say Golf & other sports should be cut but keep football baseball/softball, basketball and track so the kids that are maybe not as athletic should have nothing??? that's not very equality like....

The developer said they would raise the grade of the site several feet to conform to the new FEMA regs.

Slippery

That is why they will filling the site and adding 3ft to the entire elevation.
It was stated by their engineer last night. This will allow them to create a more efficient onsite storm water management system.

They have time to plan for all these additional residents and yet today is January 24th Christmas was a month ago and the town is still littered with Christmas trees. What are they doing in that municipal complex?

Only one answer Danno - out of town!

We have enough adult community too, But there the only ones that can afford 300,000 condos. Middle age working class families cant afford that many are forclosing on homes 210,000 or less...

The Horizon projec behind the Post Office was supposed to be age restricted. Then a law was passed that if the developer could how the unit would not sell they could change the plan. Horizon immediately applied for the change. At that time a lot of the unit is the old age restricted communities were not selling as the old people left for nursing homes or the Big House in the Heavens.

Oh yeah, someone will pay $ 300,000. but we will pay too................school kids.

Public was not excluded from Forge Pond. The area along Rte 70 and to the east is open. Bur the area within the gated community will be available only to the unit owners.
By the way this will be the first gated community in Brick. Not sure why all the others are not gated.

They need something that will make money not interested in something that would give enjoyment to any one..They are paying big bucks for this land 7million...parks and walk ways out of the question..

That ICE Palace idea had to many bad connections to it that's why that got knocked down if I remember correctly..And if I remember reading that the splash park was knocked down by the Dem's on council...But that's when they were cutting spending and double dipping positions in town..Now everything has changed from what they ran on to get elected...

it was a good idea that need exploring. It turned into a political hotpotato and got dropped. People made it personal instead of looking at the whole picture. It became a democrat issue that they used to beat up on Acropolis with. It had nothing to do with the the real issues. as to connections we all can play seven steps to the council and somehow we are related or connected to someone on the council.

@Bob you are 100% correct sports are recession proof. for quite a long time I've suggested that the foodtown site be an indoor sports complex w/ 2 full size soccer/football/lacross fields. there are always teams looking for indoor places to train, places to play tournaments and set up leagues. turf time can be rented out to numerous leagues, clubs and on an individual basis as well. just look at the complex in wall twp., that place is always busy.

You're right about Rittacco as well, the man had foresight, too bad he screwed it all up.

Bob, start making it a habit to attend Council meetings. Not everyone railed against the purchase of the Dwulet property which included the Ice Palace and Bally's with a long term lease already in place. I spoke all the time how it was a good bet for thei ice hockey town. There never was a referendum. When the petition was presented to the town Mayor Acropolis dropped the isssue.

@Nan I did attend the meetings and attempted to get my thought across. Once I opened my mouth I was attacked from both sides and was verbally assaulted when I was with my children foodshopping so I stopped. I harp on the Ice Palace deal because I believe that the development of that property, if done right, would generate money, make the center of town more attractive, encourge growth, and make the Foodtown hotel more plausable. As I said before sports are recession proof. People will pay to use the facilities, run tournments, and hold trraining, a nice nature trail connecting the Foodtown lot to the golf course, the socccer and lacross fields are used for college showcase tournament. People travel from far and need place to stay Seen cars from Va., Md, NH. A $7 occupancy fee plus property taxes plus fes for the rentals is a win for the town. Area on Forge Pond can be made into a nature park with kayakes canoes, fishing. But when the referendum came though It would restrict the property and if it did pass the council would be straightjacketed. Plus Acroplis' arogance killed a great oppertunity

Bob: What on earth are you talking about! "…not an honest referendum…"! The referendum would have been for people to decide on whether the Ice Palace deal should or should not go through. The following is "verbatim" from the petition (and I will need to enter this a couple of times because of the length): "We the undersigned registered voters of the Township of Brick, Ocean County, New Jersey, hereby request a referendum election and submission to popular vote for the Ocean Ice Palace Bond Ordinance, designated as 'An Ordinance Of The Township Of Brick, In the County of Ocean, New Jersey, Providing For The Acquisition Of Land In And For The Township Of Brick And Appropriating $9,990,000 Therefor (sic), And Providing For The Issuance Of $9,900,000 In Bonds Or Notes Of The Township Of Brick To Finance The Same,' under the power of the debt-authorization referendum procedure granted to voters of the Township of Brick by N.J.S.A.40:49-27 and under the general powers of referendum granted in N.J.S.A. 40:69A-185. (continued below)

The undersigned voters demand that the Ocean Ice Palace Ordinance in its entirety with any changes (whether by amendment or resolution) by the Township Council be submitted to the electorate for a vote at a general or special election, with a question to be put to the voters of Brick Township in the form of a Referendum." That is what the petition said! What you claim as "hype" was telling the people what Acropolis and the Council were not telling… the extent of development on the site, all the bus and vehicle parking, the increase in traffic in one of the worst traffic hubs in the township, etc. It's called TRUTH, Bob. If the referendum had made it to the ballot, the people would have made the final decision, not Acropolis and the council. Maybe YOU are willing to let the mayor and council alone make far reaching decisions, but I and over 5000 people who signed the petition do not. Thank God for people who can think and act in the interest of the town!

@Sal lets be honest here. we all know that the ordinace had to be pulled because of the referendum. As you quoted the money 9.9 millon was for ACQUISITION. If my memory serves me right the sell price was around 5.2 millon. so what about the other 4.7? It was legal opinions that stated that AS PER THE REFERENDUM the money could ONLY be spent on the PURCHASE. Going foward there were questions about any future financing because of the referendum.Did the passage of the referendum limit the total amount of moneyt that could be paid? The second the bill went a penny over the 9.9 there would be more then likely a lawsuit, thus tying up the project indefinately. An honest referendum would have been an up or down to make the purchase or would have used the ACTUAL purchase price. The 9.9 millon price tag was used to HYPE up the puplic and scare them. Add the democrat party throwing their weight behind it and passing their propaganda around - the rest is history. I HONESTLY believe had Acroplis made a vision of the purchase known to the public before the ordinance it would have been different. His arrogance condemed the purchase long before the referendum. Oh by the way, where were you and your 5000 person army when we bought foodtown or Traders Cove? or all the other major bonded projects? Debt is still going up! Time to be honest and tell the truth. Elections have consquences. Did we have a referendum on the splash park NO the people come out and it was squished.

Bob: The petition to hold a referendum speaks for itself in clear plain language… simply to let the people decide on the fate of the ordinance passed by the council. And let me ask you a question. After the site was purchased for $5.2 million, what do you think the total cost of redeveloping the rink into a major sporting arena would have been? As to the other $4.7 million, you tell me ME and the rest of the community what it was for. Why is it that you, the mayor and the council didn't want the people to decide the issue. Everything was in place for a referendum to be held… a successful petition, the information as to the arena itself, the estimated income… If the project was to be as fruitful as they said, the mayor and council should have allowed the referendum, presented their case and leave it up to the voters. But they were convinced they could not sell it to the public. Once they realized that they couldn't stuff it down the throats of the taxpayers by their unilateral action, they dropped it rather than be embarrassed. By the way, I privately urged then Mayor Scarpelli to put Traders Cove on a referendum, but you would have no knowledge of that.

@SAl you make my point. 1-The town could not go foward due to legaleze. as was witten in the referendum, "An Ordinance Of The Township Of Brick, In the County of Ocean, New Jersey, Providing For The Acquisition Of Land In And For The Township Of Brick And Appropriating $9,990,000" key word - ACQUISTION. money could not legally be spent on anything else but the acquistion. if it had stated something different like acquistion and development, it might have been different. Or quite simple a yes or no vote And yes I do know there would be more expenses but like I said numerous times Acroplis NEVER presented it or made a case for it His aroagant stlye sunk this long before the referendum. 2 - so you "privately" told Scarpelli but publically held a referendum against Acroplis and you say there's no politics in the referendum .

Bob: You keep trying to make a distinction between the "acquisition" money and the rest of the $9.9 million. So what? The issue was the purchase and further development of the Ice Palace site. I'm sorry you seem so distressed that "your" arena didn't happen (not really!), but don't put the blame on SOS. Put it right where it belongs… on a mayor and council that were trying to over extend themselves without community support. They could have gone with the referendum and took their chances, but they didn't. And yes, I did make a recommendation to Scarpelli to put Traders Cove to a referendum. Again, so what? At least I tried to steer him in that direction. And aren't you forgetting the real purpose of this blog site? The issue today is what to do about the Food Town site, so let me ask you: Do you want to see the condos as now being proposed by M&M? If not, what? Your turn.

@Sal - I make the distinction because this is a legal matter and words have distinct meaning. Acquistion is just that. If the town Acquired the property at 5.2 they could not spend the remainder. The second theyspent anything else on the property you and others would be in court. AGAIN if the referendum was HONEST it would have been an up or down vote. Maybe limit the amount to an HONEST sum not the hyped up 9.9 which was only ment to scare voters.And yes I am sad that the mayor did not present a vision for the property. As a parent of children who would make use of the facility I know it would have been an asset to the town. SOS was started, I believe, in earnest. It was taken over by politics and used as a club to beat the mayor with. So you made a recomendation to Scarpelli about Traders Cove - Why no referendum? Are your sympathies with him and the democrats? Now be honest. That's what. I bring it up on this blog because because by not developing the property without a vision is WRONG. The Ice Palace purchase, I BELIEVE, would have made the Foodtown property ripe for a hotel. Reasons I've already stated. We need to stop thinking Brick is a town. We are a small city. I am not foolish enough to believe that there would not be growing pains but we need to move foward. The property tax is daming our community and the town needs other sources of income. Look at what Ritacco did. Just wait till the reevaluations come and the town loses a ton of money.

Bob: This will be my last response to you because I am not going to change your mind, and you will not change mine. If you are adamant that $5.2 million could be spent for ACQUISITION only, then why did your council friends prepare an ordinance for $9.9 million? You say the SOS movement was politically motivated, and I say it was the will of the people; and again, if the elected officials believed that the people would have been more like you, they would have gone ahead with the referendum. They did not, which means they knew they were trying to push something that went against the people's desires and did not wish to deal with the backlash at election time. Of course, that isn't politics, is it!
BTW, the mayor and council never addressed the possibility of building a community center/sports arena/ice rink/swimming pool/etc. with access to the river for fishing/canoeing at the Food Town site, despite already owning the property. The $9.9 million would have gone a long way for that purpose…. and we wouldn't be in the current debate about condos at Food Town. In fact, use of the site for that purpose could be considered even now. According to my records, it was reported that the ice rink could generate $1.152 million a year and that a community center and therapy pools would net $429,995 per year. Again, focus on the current issue which is the Food Town site. Maybe you can still have your sports complex. Why not try a petition drive? More below:

Continued from above: I do agree with you that we need to have vision when developing the site, and certainly a hotel and banquet facility would be better than the condo proposal. But these may still not be the best use of the land to provide a reasonable balance between income and compatibility with community interests. How about if the council puts together a committee to restudy possible uses. The committee could work with the planners and elected officials to suggest the best course of action. Also, thought you might know me, but obviously you don't. My sympathies are with the people. I'm an independent, and I support non-partisan government. Sure, I helped Dems in some elections because the R's were responsible for dumping non-partisan government in favor of partisan to suit themselves. But I also worked with Republicans when John Lea ran against Dan Newman, who I might add, was probably the best mayor Brick ever had. I even ran with Republicans in 1985 in a council election. So don't pin me in a corner about my political affiliations because you just don't know. We're both entitled to our preferences. For example, I'm rooting for San Francisco next week. Would've preferred the Giants, but…

@Sal: I like your suggestion of putting together a committee comprised of residents along with township reps to study possible development plans for the property. Seeing that this article has received over 200 comments there looks to be plenty of residents who would be interested in participating. With such a unique property it would be a complete waste to allow a condo project here even if was financially feasible. Can't see much of a market for townhomes of 900 -1500 sq.,ft, priced at $300,000+ with a Rt. 70 location. How about putting a combination of township owned open space to be used as park/ walking path/ bike path/ gardens coupled with APPROPRIATE commercial space such as locally owned food and retail space. No more of those cookie cutter national chains w/ liquor licenses or mass retailers. Direct those tax abatements towards existing vacant lots such as the WOW site nearby. Whatever's done needs ample public participation and feedback

Mike M: Glad you and some others agree with me. The problem is getting the council members to agree. It's been my experience with over fifty years in the township that many officials, if not most, once elected, believe they know what is best for everybody. It's as though they are magically endowed with wisdom. It's only when the people (voters) speak out strongly that they may rethink things. Let's see what they do about this latest issue. By the way, thank you for supporting the SOS campaign.

@Sal: Your very welcome on SOS- it made sense then and it still does today. I think you're right as far as politicians thinking they are "magically endowed with wisdom". As far as I can see most elected officials are endowed with a sense of power and influence and the opinions of those who voted them into office are not taken into consideration in their decision making process. I wonder what the most effective method is to facilitate a process where our opinions and ideas are integrated into the decision making process beginning in the early stages of any major project. Petitioning can be an effective process, as does a mass representation at council meetings, and in this case these methods may be needed, but it would be much more useful to be included from the "get-go". Mike Morton

Mike M: First, let me express my admiration for posting your full name. You are among a very few who have the courage to do so. We do need a means to inject public opinion into the governing process. True, people can attend council meetings, but so many are unwilling to pull themselves away from "Dancing With The Stars", etc. Plus, many believe their input counts for nothing anyway. In many cases they are correct. Who wants to go out on a cold rainy night to attend a meeting where for the most part politicians "gush" all over themselves or are at each others' throats. Use of Initiative and Referendum works, as demonstrated by the SOS campaign, but as you know from having been part of it, it is an arduous task. Nor could the public be expected to conduct a petition for every issue in town. Otherwise, what do we have elected officials for? But there is a way…. we live in an age of instant communications. The Patch is a good example. There is no reason that major undertakings under consideration by the council and mayor cannot be made available to the public and posted to obtain citizen input. This "public forum" would give the governing body a sense of what the community feels before proceeding too far down the road with an ordinance, a major project or a costly program. It would put the people in a "consultative relationship" with elected officials using an interactive format. Very controversial issues would need some means to resolve. Maybe an on-line vote.

Who you going to sell to Ghostbusters? No one in their right mind would buy a home here.

This would also bring jobs beyond the sling hash cashier jobs that have been created in the last decade.

as a person who boats and when It come to choosing a marina i want to rent a slip for the best price, easy access to the water and its amenitie. I have small children and they would love to use the park and after boating for the day it would be great to cool off or rinse off in.
The Ice Palace is now making money on its own. the property also came with a leasee -Ballys which would pay rent. add a swim pool similiar to Neptune's and it would surely make money. devolpe the fields and they too will be used/rented.

A couple of years ago janitorial services were contracted out instead of being done in-house. Saves all the benefit expenses. If the Ice Palace property was bought as part of the package the running of that enterprise could also be contracted. It was discussed at the time at the Council Meetings. They already had customers the school teams pay for ice time.

Andy Pat, you are correct. The StopOverSpending campaign objected to the unilateral action by the mayor and council to commit over $9 million for a dubious purpose. Fortunately, our form of government allowed the people to put the issue to a referendum to let the people decide. After seeing the renderings for the Food Town site, it is my opinion that too much is being proposed for the property, and I don't agree the decision to alter the redevelopment plan should be left to the council alone. This is another matter, like the Ice Palace, that should be decided on by the community. Seems to me we don't even need a referendum. Elected officials used "robo calls" in their election campaigns, so why not make "robo calls" to the community with a question that asks if they approve of the proposed condos. If yes, "press 1", if no, "press 2". Precede the calls with a complete explanation of what would go on the site. Or if other alternatives were possible, e.g. hotel and conference center with restaurant, the same technique could apply. Elected officials have to learn that being elected doesn't make them geniuses. Make democracy work!

As stated before...once government gets involved the price of doing business goes way way up. The ice palace would have lost money once you pension the employees and pay the government salary to the general manager who then could not be fired.

They could build a rink their own on an existing piece of town real estate with parking and bathrooms already in place.

No marina has a water park yet they all make money. D we need a town pool, answer is no. Most people have a pool here already and one would not be enough for all 85 thousand who could possibly join it. Most complexes have their own anyway. Perhaps one for town teams but not for general membership.

Somewhere there is money to be made on this deal. We just have to wait and see who is who.

you're right - SOS was a democrat front that hyped up the people with major misinformation about the proposed purchase. Acroplis' arrogance did not help things either. After reading all three of your responses we would still have dirt roads. Goverment needs to expand its revenue sources. It can not continue to depend on property taxes and some state formula that chages every day. Sports are, like I said before, recession proof and generate money.

For Bob: I don't think you know what you are talking about. What "major misinformation" did the SOS group "hype" the people up with? We never said don't do it. Only that the people should have a right to decide. Apparently you have a problem with democracy in action. Don't you think it would have been informative if the referendum were actually held to see the results? Maybe the people would have voted for the purchase. But we'll never know because the mayor and council repealed the ordinance to make the purchase before the referendum even went on the ballot. Doesn't that tell you that even they did not have the courage of their convictions?

@SAl yes it was hyped. Remember the pictures on the web and the flyiers that wwere being handed out with "Acropolis Ice Palace" on the Ice Palace. It was NOT an up or down vote on purchasing the property If passed, and the deal went through it would had greatly restrict the town. I have NO problem with democracy but this was NOT an honest referendum. It did start that way but never ended that way

But they aren't selling Missing. My own development has three abandoned homes! One is bank owned due to mortgage debacle, the other two were abandoned after Sandy. What makes these council members think there is a housing shortage. We see so many signs up and down. You mentioned Zillow - if you zillow homes for sale you will see they have been up for sale then taken off the market then put up again. Homes are NOT selling thanks to the mess they have made of things in this town.

Converting this space into a project that can be used by the entire community that incorporates the town center approach instead of turning it into another cookie-cutter commercial site would be very forward thinking. Many of us are thinking the same thing so instead of just writing these thoughts down on the Patch why not move this discussion forward in a more direct way?

Mike M,

Thanks. Yeah, you know the previous town that I lived in all had a center or a square. Forget the clock tower, we don't even have a clock. Anyway, how do we go in a more forward way? A Facebook page? Commenting on the town's Facebook page?

A town center can go a long way in creating a closer and healthier community and it seems that Brick is one of few towns in the area without one. Toms River, Pt. Pleasant, Manasquan, Red Bank and yes, even Lakewood, all have a place where residents can actually gather. This large eyesore located in a central, high visibility spot could easily be turned into something that reflects positively on Brick. While Patch is a great way to start a discussion the topic will have to get the attention of others who do not read this. The township's Facebook page is probably a good place to start. Those who are interested should then set a time and place to discuss the idea in person.
.

The town is looking for rateable tax revenues. It is not looking for the benefit of the town, but for the benefit of their cash cow. Say THAT isn't the truth Mr. Pezzaras. This needs to be put to a ballot.

KC

Ratables are the lifeblood of a township to mitigate tax rates, ask Lakewood and Newark. Without taxable ratables the slack has to be picked up by the rest of the properties that pay taxes.

For every property doesn't pay taxes, the rest of the properties that do pick up that ratables share.

There is a Master Plan for Brick. Look it up on the website. Downtown is along Chambersbridge along the stretch from Rte 70 past the Library and Town Hall. That was why the Dwulet tract was perfect.

Sal P, sorry but I was at the Council meetings when the signatures were being collected and I know for a fact that what was being said to people was definitely misleading if not in some cases lies told by those previously misled.

Nan: I am not aware of anyone lying about the Ice Palace petition. Be specific. If some did lie, that does not alter the fact that what SOS was seeking was a referendum for the people to decide the issue. You have a problem with that? Like I told "Bob" earlier, if the referendum were held, the voters may have approved the purchase. What would you say to that?

sorry you are wrong - it was Edgewood Developers

bob , your right , im wrong. the two were compared so much last night i thought costco was done by m&m

Edgewood and M&M are both Jack Morris companies. It is, essentially, the same developer. The Costco site is under the trade name "JDM @ Brick."

My comment is not specific to Lakewood, Its about overbuilt developments in general. Anyone willing to plunk down $300k for a condo in an area where larger cheaper condos and houses exist isn't looking for a tiny place on a highway surrounded by neighbors, nice finishes or not. Thats just common sense. This s a receipe for a huge irreversible mistake.

That white formica sucks?

You are missing a lot of money to balance that budget. They never teach you about rainy days ????

Chief

Again your comment offers nothing intelligent to the topic or question asked.

You are missing many of the people who pay your salary , by a large margin in this limited blog , do not want condos built there and/or think its a good idea.

Hope your budget isn't as badly received as the condos. I know you will keep it way below the 2% cap and not kick the good people when they are still hurting.

Chief

You didn't come in on Saturday to assist me. You can be assured that the budget will meet the 2% CAP requirements in accordance with the law. I think you are afraid if you are part of the process you have to take some heat for the result, and you wouldn't be able to handle that. Heck, you don't even post under your real name for fear that someone might call you out or confront you in person, you are not Chief Wahoo, you are Princess Wahoo.

Love that public employee speak. Does that law allow for the Christie loopholes that we both know make the 2% a joke AND perhaps a state of emergency , disaster , etc..
Princess wahoo, that's the best you got ?
Hope you put more effort into the budget. You really want me to show up and let everyone know who I am. Have 0% increase in property taxes from 2012. Simple as that and I will post name right here and stop by and show you my laptop.
Lets see who the real princess is.

Chief

The I don't need my best to compete with the likes of you. Come out to an open meeting and we will discuss budget law or any other law you want to discuss. As for the budget it will comply with the law. Yes I would like you to come out and then the people can verify my statements and yours and we will see who knows what they are talking about.

Chief

What service levels would you want cut in order to achieve your request of the "0"?

Scott, My problem with Traders Cove is that the plans have changed too many times. There has been a large amount of money received for the project, and it was never completed. It seems like the Mayor is too concerned about having a "State of the Art" facility that he loses sight of what the true purpose was.

Yes, the condos were denied BY THE TOWN down at the bay, and I assume with the vast majority of the people of Brick, and a park was perserved for the town, though with an existing Marina, and some amenities that were debated, subject to state regulations about access to the waterway. This land is much different. This land should be a passive park like many towns have, some off major roadways, like Toms River has. Non profit organization may help, financially and with expertize, with making this land a passive walking park. There are ratables in Brick and many of those ratables have been built and added in the past few years. Sandy is a property tax problem for all of us in Brick, but Sandy is not an argument for ratables here, for additional costs for school children, costs fo residential town services here. Yes, as some of suggested, lets go forward with a web site to tell the town officials - put a park at the site.

@Scott give em gold, they want diamonds, give em diamonds trhey want gold you will never win. You need to do whats right for the town and if the condo's were not to be developed there, which I aggreed with, then the park should be developed to its best possible means.

Scott.. Just viewed the Tuedsay meeting that was rescheduled for Feb 5th; but rescheduled agin back to the 22nd.. Seems to me if the counsel really wanted public opinion, the rescheduled meeting should have been advertised better. Having a member of counsel express concern about the 5:00 hour does not inspire confidence in the democratic process. Don't see how you could have answered all questions without prior review of M&M's proposal. A banquet hall and hotel is still a great option. Few would spend $300k to live on Rt 70 in Brick. The eventual slide to sell units still remaining will turn into another Saw Mill / Maple Leaf project. God help us. Send out an Internet pole or solicit public opinion via APP for a controlled and valid response. I have never concluded a business meeting justifying a plan by stating "I personally like the proposal." Thank you

You are missing the fact that during the tenure of this administration our quality of life has gone down the tubes. Our township planning board approved that ugly orange box destroying the quality of our plaza as one example. A tax payer funded library "improvement" took out the one nice feature of our library - the sweeping staircase and replaced it with an ugly V stairway. You approved two Chicken "joints" directly across from one another that in the opinion of many did little to add to the fabric of our town. I can go on and on but to get back to the main point - WE ARE OVERCROWDED! We do not need these additional residents. Stop worrying about lining your pockets and listen to the MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE!

Sal

I will call you.

Bravo Sal!

Sal and other like minded:
you are so right. Words are important. The words I heard are that the study was for a full scale Hotel. We need a place for our of towners to stay when they visit. We need meeting and/or conference area. One of the other two plans included a Marriott Courtyard. It would make available to us the basics. The PILOT plan was approved as a blighted area in need of redevelopment. Blighted indicates the reverse of an upscale area. John Zingis is right. Everyone who can should attend the Council Meetings and have your voice be heard. It also offers an opportunity for like minded people to join forces.

When and where is the meeting please.

They do not have a CAFRA permit yet.

Agree!

Sal, At least it took the old gangsters a little while to feather their nests. This group was not even smart enough to wait. Actually ,don't appear too smart at anything.

Mike: Brick had non-partisan elections up until around 1989. You may have moved in just after the change. As you can appreciate, parties are rabid about power and control as it means so much to the supporters by their getting key positions.... which means money. Under non-partisan, we would see slates composed of R's and D's s well as independents running together. Brick First was such a slate But the Republican party wanted to capitalize on the township's having a larger majority of registered Republicans and desired the "whole ball of wax". So they initiated a change and convinced voters that it was a referendum simplyto change the date of the election from May to Nov. What they did not tell the voters was that Nov elections are partisan. Rarely have we had an independent run since then. Now may be the time to consider changing back.

Ed was the publisher of the old Sampler, correct?

Yes Dan

By comparison,Those were the good old days. Scarpelli was a good mayor. The town looked great then under his tenure. The Windward Beach concerts had real talents then. The library was new and nice. The schools were always horrible to tell the truth, but things were better under Scarpelli than now. At least our trash was collected and bulk as well. Here we are a month past Christmas and trees all over the place. Christmas trees and trees from Sandy or one of the other storms. It shouldn't take a month to clean such rubble up. This town needs a fundraiser to buy another truck. It is an awful eyesore. Garbage leaves and broken branches and Christmas trees everywhere. Mr. Pezzaras you want to collect ratables why not fine the residents who do not maintain their properties. With the monies you collect you can buy a truck and help the residents maintain their properties. Call it Project Clean Sweep. If Code enforcement gives you a warning and you don't comply you get slapped with a fine.

For Paul Pallante aka "BrickGuy: I applaud you for your openness by revealing your true identity. I agree that more analysis should have been done before even getting to this point. I have to agree with Scott Pezzaras, too, in that the town could use the taxes from developing the site; however, officials should provide how proceeding with development as proposed will affect the tax rate. People may prefer paying a little more in taxes rather than have the large development. It is the people who should decide, not just the mayor and council!

Thanks Sal...I agree with you...I don't feel represented by the people that I supported when I voted. When someone says they are going to do something and then they do the opposite, I have a problem with that...call me old fashioned I guess.
This property should be left to a vote. I do not believe that this will end up being the 'plus' that they are talking about considering it may cost us more than any taxes that are brought in.
This property also creates a unique opportunity to be set aside for the community. What about the benefit of a community center? What does that do to our home values when a prospective buyer sees what our community has to offer. We need to look at the community aesthetics and how we can improve Brick so we become a town with facilities equal to the promise of our youth.
Paul Pallante
Beautify Brick!
https://www.facebook.com/BeautifyBrick
Join us!

B W: You're right about Dan Kelly being mayor. And didn't he suggest a referendum be held to let the people decide?

Yes he did and the township attorney told him it was too late to place it on the ballot. Acropolis and rest of the council then waited almost a full year to vote on the ordnance for the 9.9.

I have to see if I can find it, because I am 99 percent sure it said for purchase and repairs.