Brick Township’s “T-N-R” Program to be Handled by Popcorn Park Zoo in Lacey
Lacey Township-based animal refuge to perform veterinary services for local "Trap-Neuter-Return" program
At Tuesday evening’s meeting of the governing body, it was decided that veterinary medical services for a program to manage the population of feral cats in Brick Township and the surrounding area would be conducted by the Popcorn Park Zoo in Lacey Township.
The “Trap-Neuter-Return” program, or “T-N-R” for short, is one that involves the safe trapping of unaltered feral cats, having them spayed or neutered, then releasing them back into the location where they were first collected. The procedure is endorsed by the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (ASPCA) as the most effective and humane way to control the growth of feral cat colonies.
The Popcorn Park Zoo's services in this area were approved by the township council for a one-year contract, beginning this past Wednesday and concluding on Aug. 7, 2013.
“The price structure is attached to the resolution; $75 for spaying (or) $50 for neutering, $5 for post-operative antibiotic injections, $20 for vaccination against rabies and feline leukemia, $25 if the animal needs to be euthanized and $40 for an emergency care visit,” said Administrator Scott Pezarras.
Council President John Ducey said that of the 16 bids that went out into an applicant pool, only one was returned, which was that of the Popcorn Park Zoo.
Councilman Dan Toth asked who would bring the cats down to Lacey Township for the T-N-R treatments, and Councilman Domenick Brando replied that the transportation was covered by the volunteers on the T-N-R committee in Brick, who Brando termed as “a great group of people.”
Later, Former Councilman Michael Thulen thanked the governing body for using the applicant pool system from which the choice for the T-N-R program was decided.
“Last year, we did put together one other applicant up in Hillside, New Jersey. The program there would be to bring a trailer down and do 15 cats at a time, and it was $100 apiece, which is very expensive,” said Thulen.
Thulen explained that creating a pool of applicants allowed them to get an affordable overseer for the program, such as the Popcorn Park Zoo.
On the bid process, Thulen said that he would like to see it offered up once again later in 2012, to find additional veterinarians to be involved in the T-N-R program.
“I would like to do it again in a couple of months, to try and get ourselves up to a pool of 4 or 5 vets (for the program),” Thulen said.
The former councilman added that the local T-N-R committee has $1,000 in a rider account set aside for use in the program, and that all the T-N-R treatments for feral cats in Brick Township thus far have been taken care of by volunteers with their own money.
“We’re looking forward to being able to use this in the near future, but in a couple of months, let’s put it out again and see how many more vets we can put in this pool,” Thulen commented.
Barbara
6:15 pm on Friday, August 10, 2012
That is GREAT! Now lets start trapping, need to reduce the cat/ feral population.
Joe D
7:57 pm on Friday, August 10, 2012
Are we missing something here? According to those numbers, it doesn't seem cost effective at all. Euthanizing is more humane than letting them roam around our neighborhoods to become road pizza. Round trip transportation, procedures, vaccinations and potential emergency care? Will the transportation stop for breakfast at Tiffany's too? This is ridiculous.
Fred
9:00 pm on Friday, August 10, 2012
How about a “Trap-Neuter-Return” program for Politicians? Now that would be worth the money.
2much2say
10:13 pm on Friday, August 10, 2012
Joe&Jess. You must be the most uneducated jerk in the world. Yeah let's kill all the cats because people don't spay & neuter. It's not the animals fault. The animal cannot have a chance at life. I happen to other animals dead on the street. Cats don't wonder in the road. They're not stupid. Just like these other road kill victims its crazy people who can't drive, talk & text on the phone, don't pay attention while driving, always in a hurry to get to the next red light.
This is a great plan and I hope it is successful. My Vet does trap and take care of the cats while recovering and will release.
For those who think this is stupid you really should look deep with-in yourself and ask for help. That is a sick and rude statemen!
parkway
10:47 pm on Sunday, August 12, 2012
I agree I happen to trap,fix,and release, these cats are provided for, given shelter food, clean water. and a chance for a decent lifeI People who say to just kill them make me sick. Cats are clean animals they are also devoted to those that care for them.
Michele Murphy
8:57 am on Tuesday, August 14, 2012
@D5557 And there you are being rude on yet nother topic
2much2say
10:30 pm on Friday, August 10, 2012
Yes, Joe & Jess you're missing something it's called a heart. Just because these cats don't have a home & someone has dumped them they shouldn't have a chance a life? It's not the cats fault that this is a problem it's the people in this world that have created this problem. I see other dead animals on side streets that get run over because people are not paying attention to driving they're talking & texting, putting on make-up, yelling at kids, and rushing to the next red light. You're choice of words are disgusting. I happen to think this is a great program and will defiantly help with the cat population. You have to start somewhere and to just kill cats for no reason is insane and makes me I'll just thinking about it. If no one was there to help you, should you be killed? That's basically what you are saying in a nutshell. I know this program will work and will be successful. Joe & Jess is the money coming out of your pocket, it's coming from people who care. You're a jerk and I really suggest you look deep with-in your soul for some help.
Patch, I know of a vet that will if not already would help with this program. I will ask & who should I contact.
Darl
8:50 pm on Saturday, August 11, 2012
Is this vet local or at least within a reasonable driving distance.
parkway
10:49 pm on Sunday, August 12, 2012
You can contact the Brick recreation office and ask for madeline
Typical Obama Voter
10:31 pm on Friday, August 10, 2012
Trap the cats and bring them to ~D5557~'s house. They will feed and take care of the poor creatures at their own expense. ......Right ~D5557~ ?
parkway
10:50 pm on Sunday, August 12, 2012
All of us who are trying to help these animals are doing it at our own expense for your information
Typical Obama Voter
10:36 pm on Friday, August 10, 2012
One good thing about feral cats is they keep the rodent population down, but if you are going to trap them and drive them to Lacey township and the Popcorn zoo, you might as well just drop them off in the middle of the pine barrens by a lake. this way they have water and they can live freely in the woods.
2much2say
10:37 pm on Friday, August 10, 2012
Yup you're correct.
I care for life not for anything else, if there is something wrong and the car is suffering or spreading something that a different case.
What do you suggest?
Instead of just putting your two cents of a worthless comment.
parkway
10:51 pm on Sunday, August 12, 2012
great they can have water and be starved to death.
2much2say
10:39 pm on Friday, August 10, 2012
Typos suck!
Hahahaba
2much2say
10:41 pm on Friday, August 10, 2012
People cannot just trap cats you will get fined! No joke.
Joe D
1:22 am on Saturday, August 11, 2012
Our cats are licensed, neutered, vaccinated and stay indoors where they are safe and are not a nuisance to our neighbors. We have always been responsible pet owners and we love our animals. It's these crazy animal fanatics and bleeding heart animal hoarders who have created this problem and it's the animals that suffer. Some of the strays in our neighborhood are disgusting and probably diseased and rabid. You can debate this all you want, but some would be better off if they were euthanized.
maximadcap
11:51 am on Saturday, August 11, 2012
Joe n Jess,I agree with you.I love cats but I don t love seeing them in the rain,freezing in the snow n walking around infested with fleas n ticks.I see my cats protected n loved n outside cats fighting.Most of Brick has at least 10 wild cats on on a block.Herbertsville area has at the least 50 cats that can be seen out of the woods.Theres more in every condo complex there.I know its mostly owners who leave them.If I was a cat there I d wnat to be euthanized.Also,if if was a dog , it would be trapped n helped.Everyone knows cats are secondary..I ll remind you I am a cat lover..
Mrgrumpass
6:45 am on Saturday, August 11, 2012
Joe & Jess
I agree with you, but this all sounds a little like Obama care for cats ! But be careful I think ~D5557~ might be looking for you; you know what too much cat nip tea can do!
lifelonginbrick
7:29 am on Saturday, August 11, 2012
I think this is good step towards humane treatment of feral cats. I really don't understand some of the heartless ignorant comments on this thread that would be so quick to kill innocent animals. I have five cats all neutered and all indoor cats but I can tell you two came from shelters and three started out as ferals who wandered into my companies warehouse. It took a few months of working with these ferals but they are now sweet gentle house cats that have taught me that kindness and patience is never a waste of time.
parkway
10:55 pm on Sunday, August 12, 2012
Everyone of these animals deserves a chance and these colonies are taken care of by people who care about them. These cats are not out in the streets they are not starving they are trapped spay- neutered given shots and any medical care and released to the only home they know. Furthur more many of the kittens are socialized and found homes. Most become loving gentle pets.
2much2say
8:35 am on Saturday, August 11, 2012
Yeah that's what I said if they're ill they should take the appropriate steps inorder for the the balance of cats don't get infected. The only way they can help is if they do the TNR. I personally don't feel that all the strays should be put down if they are in good health. It drives me nuts when people let their family cat outside!
2much2say
8:40 am on Saturday, August 11, 2012
Lifelonginbrick
Finally someone with are caring mind, heart & soul.
These people have no such feelings what so ever.
I feel sorry for them!
2much2say
9:02 am on Saturday, August 11, 2012
Ignorance is the problem.
Obama? Please he has done much for many! Don't forget. What does he have to do w/ this anyway. I swear every topic resorts to obamba. Get a life and think for yourself. Geez... The stupidity...
gail sands
10:08 am on Saturday, August 11, 2012
D557 you are right. People just dont put any common sense into what they do with their animals. I have a rescue dog and also a rescue cat. But my feelings are that not alot of folks are able to afford the vet bills that go along with taking "proper" care of their pets. Did you notice in the article that the council only got one reply back for a quote of the TNR vetting program. Evidently no local Vets want to volunteer. Why is that. This program in Brick right? I know other towns have them too, but why do none of our town Vets put in a bid for the job. I guess not a big money maker. The TNR is the only logical way to handle these poor animals. They have no other advocate.
Joe merola
10:31 am on Saturday, August 11, 2012
the TNR sounds like a great program,but trapping and returning to the same location sounds good sometimes , but at brick DPW the cats are taking over they pissing and pooping all over , in our mason sand that we work with and in our pole barn is bad . Something more has to be done this is a big health issue for us at Dpw
Darl
11:14 am on Saturday, August 11, 2012
Brick's been trying to get a program together for over 3 years....what is the hold up? Most of these poor cats were left behind by heartless owners or stupid ones that don't get their pets fixed. It should be Brick's responsibility to help with cats that on their property. As far as the Popcorn Park Zoo....why haven't any of our vets stepped up and volunteered? They really need to practice what they preach.
Darl
11:34 am on Saturday, August 11, 2012
Thank goodness for volunteers. Brick should reimburse them for the monies they put out. If you read the article carefully, it is going to cost $100 for a female cat and $75 for a male cat...so how can Hillside be too expensive. Is Brick also going to reimburse the volunteers for gas? Lacey is not around the corner. I really hope Brick does more than just talk about TNR.
parkway
10:57 pm on Sunday, August 12, 2012
The volunteers do this because they love animals and want to help them. Most is paid out of their own pockets.
maximadcap
12:06 pm on Saturday, August 11, 2012
Cats starving,injured from fights,don t give them food or they will be declared yours or you will be fined.Better they starve.Right?no wrong.If you are able to get a trap you have to trap at shelter hours to bring them in.What wild cats come from 9 to 4..We need amore realistic approach..
Darl
6:24 pm on Saturday, August 11, 2012
I heard the shelter just puts feral cats down
2much2say
4:11 pm on Saturday, August 11, 2012
I support this TNR program 100%. As far as these vets go, they don't want to work the overtime I'm guessing. I know of people who have TNR many cat colonies and come to find out the brick vet on chambersbridge trapped and put them down. Sick! This is just crazy that so many of you don't care, you must not have any feedlings what so ever. Ignorant to think that this program won't help the population. Plus most of these cats are put up for adoption and will go to foster homes. You cannot just kill an animal because there isn't anyone to take care of it. They're plenty of people that I personally know that will build them shelter in the winter and after their long day of working will travel to different locations to provide them with food. Volunteers are not looking for money they are actually putting the money out of their own pocket and all we want in return is holefullness and knowing we're doing the right thing for these animals. You who think this is stupid are intact stupid yourselves. It's truly disturbing knowing that there are people in this world who could careless. If everyone in this world did a little bit to help & support anything to do with animals this world would be a better place for everyone.
2much2say
4:22 pm on Saturday, August 11, 2012
I also would suggest leaving these cats alone leave it to the professionals. I was scratched once by a funky looking cat and had to get treated for rabies and it wasn't fun. They hurt so bad. Just leave them alone. Don't call the shelter call the pop corn zoo and ask for help, they will refer you to the proper people. I repeat just leave then alone. Please for you who think these cats deserve to die, please just think of them. Also remember many people let their cats out and they roam but they do return home, my neighbors cat stay in her yard or mine she doesn't leave the home front. If this bothers you so much what about the Mosquitos that are cause WNV use your free time and complain about someone taking action.
2much2say
4:31 pm on Saturday, August 11, 2012
This is great program and I think you people are not reading this correctly. You cannot trap any animals it's against the law, you will be fined. The public is NOT to trap!
If you trap an animal and the animal dies you are in big trouble. Someone poisoned a wild animal and they are now serving jail time.
Let it be.
DPW call the popcorn zoo and they will guide you in he correct direction to help solve the problem. Let memask you, I know the put roadkill in with the free mulch that people pick up how is that legal?
Joe merola
8:53 am on Sunday, August 12, 2012
Never ever seen in my 18 years of working for the town never saw road kill being placed in the mulch you get for free , we take leaves from other towns to , can't say what comes in but we do not do that .
Joe D
5:33 pm on Saturday, August 11, 2012
D5557 is posting incorrect information. The fact is that anyone can trap cats within the guidelines distributed by the Jersey Shore Animal Center and they will even provide traps for those who don't have them. Trapping wildlife like skunks, possums and raccoons is illegal. Our neighbor told us the Brick animal shelter will also pick up the cats if you can't take them there yourself. She trapped a few and said someone from the shelter came and picked them up. D5557, I hope the rabid animal you were scratched by was trapped and euthanized because it certainly should not have been returned to any neighborhood if it was diseased.
2much2say
5:58 pm on Saturday, August 11, 2012
I'm not posting incorrect information. I want people to know that they cannot jus do the trapping alone-geez. Sometimes you have to spell it pout for people. I took action upon myself to go to the er and get checked. I never said the cat had rabies idiot, I said it was a funky looking cat and I wasn't going to chance it. Yeah call Jersey Shore Animal Shelter, they are the worst! and when they are closed what do you do? Since you think you know it all why don't you volunteer? If this is a problem for you and others herewhy not start with the popcorn zoo? Why not call the popcorn zoo?
Darl
6:30 pm on Saturday, August 11, 2012
How come Point Paws got their act together in less than a year but Brick is still not doing anything after 3 years. Brick wonders why people think this is a big joke. Our mayor is good talking about it but does nothing to get it going. Maybe Brick residents should bombard his office with complaints and petitions.
2much2say
7:53 pm on Saturday, August 11, 2012
Woow, that's funny b/c the people I'm speaking of are from point. Im going to find out what's really going on. I do know hey have moved ink brick ad they reside here.@@ It seems to me that brick come up with great ideas but no follow-thru.
Umm, really makes you wonder
Mark Story Jenks
9:23 pm on Saturday, August 11, 2012
Vets know TNR is wrong. That's why they don't get involved. Unless you REALLY make it worth their while.
So Much to Say
10:28 pm on Saturday, August 11, 2012
I'm glad this program in NOT in the hands of Jersey Shore Animal Shelter. No good comes from those nut-jobs.
2much2say
11:05 pm on Saturday, August 11, 2012
So much to say, I thought I was the only one who got the weird, nasty, cruel, uneducated vibe from them. They are horrible at what threy do. I hate that place!!!!!!!!
If I only had $$$$$$$$$$$$$
Bertha
8:20 am on Sunday, August 12, 2012
Instead of complaining why don't you call Town Hall, find out when the T-N-R people meet and go to one of thier meetings. I will leave you with a quote from Mahatma Gandhi "the greatness of a nation and it's moral progress can be judged by the way it's animals are treated"
Darl
11:33 am on Sunday, August 12, 2012
I agree....stop complaining and attend their meeting to voice your opinion, complaints and/or concerns. They meet every 3rd Monday at 7:30 at the Civic Center on Chambersbridge Road. It is open to the public. It's a good way to find out what's going on instead of just guessing.
parkway
10:59 pm on Sunday, August 12, 2012
great suggestion.
2much2say
8:58 am on Sunday, August 12, 2012
Great idea I will do that!
Thanks.
2much2say
11:01 am on Sunday, August 12, 2012
Joe M
I have heard of that for many years. What do you do with kill? I don't know for sure but I heard of kill being mixed in. That's gross. I'm glad you say it's not true. Maybe I'll come get some mulch!
Joe merola
2:40 pm on Sunday, August 12, 2012
They are buried or brought to landfill not in compost at our place,but we are a county drop off center from other towns and never saw any thing
Darl
11:36 am on Sunday, August 12, 2012
There are articles of our mayor talking about wanting to get TNR going but it's been a long time in the making and still not up and running. In the meantime, cats are multiplying by the hundreds and the volunteers and rescue people just can't keep up with it by themselves. Maybe the residents who care about these cats should bombard the mayor's office with letters, e-mails and petitions.
2much2say
1:49 pm on Sunday, August 12, 2012
Darl
Who so I call to fond out when the meeting will be? Do you know? I want to go. If our mayor is talking about this and hasn't done anything! I will email, I'm up for petitions too & c/letters. If you don't mind let me know when this meeting is
Thanks
Darl
3:51 pm on Sunday, August 12, 2012
Call 732-262-1076 meeting is August 20 at 7:30 at civic center on Chambersbridge Road....hope you can make it as well as other people
2much2say
2:20 pm on Sunday, August 12, 2012
Darl well the vet is n point, but I know the woman who has a place in place opened by a volunteer with her own money. I will call & find out if she is involved already or would like to be involved. Like I said before she does this all for cats & on her own time & dime!!!!!!
Darl, I can't get on the civic center website. Is this meeting tomorrow the 13th
Darl
3:53 pm on Sunday, August 12, 2012
I don't think info is on township calendar....meeting is Aug 20
2much2say
3:26 pm on Sunday, August 12, 2012
Joe M
Good to know, thanks.
2much2say
4:37 pm on Sunday, August 12, 2012
Darl
Thank you so much I couldn't find anything about a meeting. I'll be there and I hope others will too.
type writer
5:16 pm on Sunday, August 12, 2012
My muslim step dad taught me to eat dog meat while I was growing up in Indonesia. Read my book.
2much2say
8:39 pm on Sunday, August 12, 2012
Haha gross! Right? Hope you still don't eat your pet.
FYI to All; Felines can live in any environment, all types of seasons. And that's a FACT
parkway
11:03 pm on Sunday, August 12, 2012
When these cats are trapped they are brought to a facility and fixed then recovered and released. They do not go to a shelter at all. Furthur more with a TNR program a shelter cannot euthinize them without contacting the TNR to see if anyone is missing a cat. These are registered colonies with colony caretakers. These are not cats roaming the streets.
Mark Story Jenks
11:56 pm on Sunday, August 12, 2012
July 18, 2012: Paul Gaylord, a welder from Prineville, Oregon contracted the infamous bubonic plague that killed 75 million Europeans, wiping out a third of the whole population, in the 14 century, trying to save Charlie, a stray cat his family had adopted, from choking on a dead rodent. The cat bit him. He may lose his fingers and toes.
Read more at http://www.medicaldaily.com/news/20120718/10941/cat-bite-black-death-bubonic-plague-fingers-toes.htm#Gjgyvtq7557li6sl.99
2much2say
4:34 am on Monday, August 13, 2012
PARKWAY
I am gals to hear that when the TNR is In place that the aniamls are now registered that's great news. So, if these idiots with-out experience try tand trap a cat & wind up trapping wildlife (after they are find) and if they do trap a cat where ever these non-experience people bring it I the cats have been thru TNR they will know? Is a chip implated?
PARKWAY I'll you be attending the meeting on the 20th at the civic center in brick off of chamberbridge road. I don't think people understand the amount of work & our own personal money to get these cats healthy. Hope to see you at the meetin
parkway
9:52 pm on Monday, August 13, 2012
I will be at the meeting
2much2say
4:38 am on Monday, August 13, 2012
Typos sorry:(
Darl
8:45 am on Monday, August 13, 2012
Parkway.....Thanks for your comments....I will be attending the meeting too. I have lots of questions. Hey people, STOP COMPLAINING & GO TO THE MEETING. It's at the Civic Center on August 20th at 7:30
Mike Thulen
1:56 pm on Monday, August 13, 2012
Sorry that I have not responded sooner, but I was away from my computer over the week end. I believe there might be some misunderstanding with regard to what the Popcorn Zoo will be doing for the Brick T-N-R committee.
“The price structure is attached to the resolution; $75 for spaying (or) $50 for neutering, $5 for post-operative antibiotic injections, $20 for vaccination against rabies and feline leukemia, $25 if the animal needs to be euthanized and $40 for an emergency care visit,” said Administrator Scott Pezarras.
The township will pay for Vet services only with money raised and given by the T-N-R committee. The Popcorn Zoo will not be the T-N-R service in town, they will be part of a pool of vets and at this time is the lowest cost available to the committee.
“Thulen explained that creating a pool of applicants allowed them to get an affordable overseer for the program, such as the Popcorn Park Zoo.” I at no time said that PPZ will be any sort of overseer.
The funds in the rider account were raised by the committee and will be used to further the organization and to control the cat population.
All are welcome to come to the next meeting of the committee, already posted on this blog. We are looking for volunteers to help with the cause and to help raise funding to control the cat population.
Bertha
10:12 am on Tuesday, August 14, 2012
I love it when perple are called "IDIOTS" for trying to help wildlife. But isn't this always the way, the people that sit around and do nothing except complain always chastise those that do. I wonder who is the IDIOT?
parkway
5:06 pm on Friday, August 17, 2012
Could not have said it any better
2much2say
9:31 am on Sunday, August 19, 2012
I'm the one who called someone a idiot b/c he didn't read my post & commented nasty in return.
I in fact help these cats. So, by me calling someone an idiot that makes me one! I'm so sorry I shouldn't have used that word. What would be better?
Mark Story Jenks
3:00 pm on Sunday, August 19, 2012
Ignorant.
2much2say
3:37 pm on Sunday, August 19, 2012
Okay
Darl
2:41 pm on Wednesday, August 22, 2012
Where were all the people who said they were going to show their support at the Brick TNR meeting? Not one of you came to the meeting Monday night. I think it's a shame you couldn't spare 1 hour of your time. We need volunteers so badly and need to clean up some of these colonies before they start reproducing again. Where are all the concerned cat lovers?
Mark Story Jenks
4:36 pm on Wednesday, August 22, 2012
Maybe they are beginning to realise that TNR is not the answer. It puts a band-aid on the problem, but the band-aid has no adhesive.
Darl
2:29 pm on Thursday, August 23, 2012
Even a small dent is better than nothing...there are just not enough people who care enough to help. Most people voice how much they care but I never see anyone coming forward to volunteer. I am disappointed in people.
parkway
7:00 pm on Wednesday, August 22, 2012
TNR is the answer it stops reproduction and the colonies can live a peaceful life. Those of us involved will see to it and all of you with your stupid comments can just sit and judge
2much2say
7:57 pm on Wednesday, August 22, 2012
Darl,
I had to address my CRF 16 yr old, she's not doing well. She now has a UTI and on anti-biotics. She's my baby. Ive been a mess to say the least.
Can I contact you via email if you wish to share or can you tell me how I can help??????
2much2say
10:00 am on Friday, August 24, 2012
Darl where you at?
I can help!
Darl
12:59 pm on Wednesday, August 29, 2012
I don't know how to get in touch with you.
2much2say
12:34 am on Saturday, August 25, 2012
Oct. 16th is national feral cat day!
I would lime to host an event. Any ideas? Would love to raise some money to help this kitties. The only event listed in NJ is in vorheeves that crazy. I couldn't believe it.
http://nationalferalcatday.org/?all=1mething
2much2say
3:32 pm on Friday, August 31, 2012
Darl would you mind posting your email? If not, I can come to the next meeting which is the 17th right? I can't post my email. Any other ideas's? Or if you want just tell me what I can do here. What's ever best for you.
2much2say
8:47 am on Saturday, September 1, 2012
Darl contact me here DLbar520@Gmail.com
I look forward to hearing from you & I will get in touch with someone I know who has point under control. Did hear she gave up in brick b/c of the politics I heard it was too much but being she knows so much I'm tring to get in touch with her. I'm hard to push away, I don't give up. Perhaps we can go meet with her together. Let's try to get something started so we can help out on the 16 national feral cat day. If not coffee. Contact me asap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2much2say
9:38 pm on Tuesday, September 11, 2012
Tabaroo are you out there?
I'm ready, when can I get started? I'll
call you @ work or cell??????? ?
I need to do something